It’s time to get honest about New Zealand’s constitutional origins
New Zealanders, particularly politicians, have been asked to be truthful about Te Tiriti o Waitangi and to agree to a factual consensus; Māori did not cede sovereignty in 1840.
By affirming the position, Te Rūnanga o Toa Rangatira CE Helmut Modlik believes it will provide a constitutional framework all New Zealanders, and future generations, can use to build a positive future together.
Modlik made his assertions during the highly publicised, sometimes fiery and fun debate on the Working Group political podcast with ACT’s Party leader David Seymour on Tuesday evening, with hosts Martyn Bradbury and Damien Grant.
The debate was centred on Seymour’s controversial Treaty Principles Bill and proposed referendum.
Modlik says he enjoyed the relatively positive and informal debate but would have preferred more time to focus on the future of Te Tiriti rather than constantly having to revisit the sovereignty issue.
He hopes others will continue to discuss Te Tiriti publicly but doesn’t believe there needs to be any more debates with Seymour.
“He’s a skilled politician but it’s a waste of time debating more because he’ll just repeat himself,” says Modlik. “He’s consistent. I wasn’t surprised by anything he offered up. His debate approach was to be political and evasive. Thankfully it was obvious to the audience.”
The show’s YouTube audience was asked who was the best performing panellist, which Modlik won with 55% of all votes, Seymour received 42%, and Grant just 3%.
Modlik said Seymour struggled to deal with the substantive issues about constitutional legitimacy. Seymour asserted early in the debate, that he believed Māori had ceded sovereignty.
“The idea that the rangatira of 1840 would totally surrender their mana to a couple of blokes and some missionaries, it’s preposterous,” said Modlik during the debate.
Seymour responded, “It’s not preposterous. It doesn’t really matter. We’ve been in a democratic process since then.”
The tempo of the debate heated up when Modlik later responded, “David, your democracy only exists because our chiefs said you could come here and establish it, and the terms of that legitimate establishment was that our hapū would be able to rule themselves. That is literally what tino rangatiratanga means.
“All I’m inviting you and the rest of the country to do is to front up to those facts not the fiction, the facts.
“Sovereignty was not ceded.”
Modlik challenged Seymour, the hosts and audience to consider the implications of Māori not ceding sovereignty.
“Please stop saying, ‘look leave it in the past’,” implored Modlik. “Stare at those words, be honest about what the historical record says and just acknowledge ngā hapū did not cede their rangatiratanga, their sovereignty.
“The logical implication David is this, everything that flows out of that is ultra vires, everything that flows out of that is not constitutionally or legally valid.”
Ultra vires, which means to exceed the legal scope of its authority was met with surprise by the panel and Seymour. Modlik challenged them to be clear eyed about New Zealand’s constitutional origins and its implications.
Seymour pushed back during the debate by repeatedly saying there should not be different rights based on whakapapa (genealogy), “Any rights based on who your ancestors were is not going to work, it hasn’t worked anywhere or here,” said Seymour.
“Equal rights means everyone is born equal what they do after is always cause and effect.”
Seymour said we have become a divided society, using the Springbok tour and apartheid as an example. “Today we are divided by something awfully like it, which is the idea people have a different role to play in our society because of who their ancestors were, what they signed, and what they did. It does not work.”
However, Modlik pointed out it was always Seymour pushing the race card during the debate and publicly when asked about the Treaty Principles Bill. Modlik says race is irrelevant because the Treaty was a contract between two sovereign groups of people, and their polities not their ethnicity.
“I 100% agree it’s not helpful, nobody likes it, to differentiate people on race and ethnicity,” said Modlik in the debate. “This is what I’m trying to communicate with you David, that race is not actually the kaupapa.
“What we’re talking about is belonging to separate sovereign entities who entered into, willingly, terms of agreement. And, which one side almost straight away breached, and has done so to this day. That’s the issue. It’s not about race. I agree with you it’s divisive.”
Modlik says during the debate he wanted to talk more about the positive and future aspects of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and focus on Treaty relationships that have already existed for decades, and need to continue. “All over the country you can see hapū and iwi working in genuine relationships with local government, central government, community and private sector businesses across the country and overseas.”
He believes all Kiwis believe in truth, justice and a ‘fair go’ which will help continue to build on the constitutional framework of Te Tiriti o Waitangi for future generations.
“The good news is our ancestors had a vision for creating together something new and better in this beautiful place,” says Modlik.
“Te Tiriti holds that promise for us still. Respectful coexistence of kawanatanga and rangatiratanga has already been agreed and is the only way to achieve it if truth and justice are involved.
“It’s what Te Tiriti o Waitangi offers us, let us finally embrace it fully and realise its promise for us all.”
Watch the exclusive Treaty debate here. The event was live streamed on The Working Group political podcast simulcast on YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, JuiceTV.live, Waatea Radio, Te Āo Māori News Website, Whakaata Māori + and Facebook, NZ Herald, Sky TV Channel 3, and replayed on Channel 200 Freeview, and posted on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Rova, and YouTube.
For further information contact: communications@ngatitoa.iwi.nz